Aprindere MIL - Engine Check

[tolin]

Aprostimativ, adica si-au batut joc de munca unui maestru, ca si in cazul Spark-ului.

[ida_eht]

nu vreau sa pornesc o discutie despre subturat, dar in afara de 1-2 care chiar e dificil de schimbat in turatie mare, in rest schimbam cam la 3000, nu am tinut motorul sub 2000 (cum scrie in manual). Acum vreau sa incerc sa schimb si mai sus dar la ora 6 serara prin Bucuresti nici treapta 1 nu am unde sa o trec de 1500 de ture asa ca nu vad o solutie. In legatura cu model 2007 nu am idee daca la motor au facut ceva (probabil nu) dar sunt cateva ornamente schimbate si bordul este negru tot. In legatura cu benzina am fost initial destul de multumit de efix, pana ultima oara cand am facut un plin in Craiova si dupa drumul pana in Bucuresti a inceput sa faca cum povesteam. Si numai subturata nu am tinut-o pe drumul ala ca am schimbat numai in 4500

Service-ul a fost la GTT si au fost ok, nu am putut sa intru cu ei cand s-au uitat la masina, da' mi-au dat o copie dupa constatarea lor unde era codul de eroare si explicatia codului

Edited January 11, 2007 by ida_eht

[tolin]

Din pacate, asa cum este etajata cutia de viteze la masina asta, dupa treapta a II-a poti schimba la 2600 rpm, dar pana acolo doar peste 3000. Ei au crescut diametrul rotii de la 13" in 2004 la 15" in 2006, dar nu cred ca au umblat prea mult la raportul final. In plus, metoda de reducere a poluarii prin deschiderea prematura a valvei EGR si mentinerea stabilitatii la ralanti prin scaderea avansului cred ca sunt cauza depunerilor pe bujii si supape. Ceva din harta avansului din ECM nu se potriveste cu tipul de benzina comercializata (produsa) la noi si nu este vorba de cifra octanica. Cand micsorezi avansul, n-ai nevoie de CO mai mare, dimpotriva.

[ovi_jer]

Vehicle Marshaling

 

The transportation of new vehicles from the assembly plant to the dealership can involve as many as 60 key cycles within 2 to 3 miles of driving. This type of operation contributes to the fuel fouling of the spark plugs and will turn on the MIL with a set DTC P0300.

[dadu1976]

Deci pot fi si alte cauze.

 

cititi si aici

Edited January 11, 2007 by dadu1976

[ida_eht]

Adevarul e ca am tot zis ca ii resetez ecm-ul dar pana nu mi-a facut probleme nu l-am resetat de cand am luat-o. Dar totusi 3000km a mers perfect...

[Abram Burel]

Hai mai Ovi, adica ECM-ul ala s-a suparat in primii 30 de Km si s-a razbunat 3 luni mai tarziu, dupa inca 3000? Asa o fi sau alta era poanta?!

[andreib]

Deci pot fi si alte cauze.

 

cititi si aici

Eu zic ca s-a umplut evacuarea cu apa, acolo e problema... Hai sa fim seriosi si sa nu cautam explicatii babesti si dacioate. Calitatea indoielnica a carburantilor de la noi este un factor ce contribuie intr-o masura mai mare sau mai mica la multe dintre defectiunile masinilor noastre DAR arareori este singura cauza...

[dadu1976]

BMW Test -- Background

 

It was this series of events and circumstances that created the problem for BMW and other automobile manufacturers. Owners had cars with clean injectors but dirty intake valves that caused drivability problems. An expensive solution is a walnut shell blasting (similar to sand blasting, but with a less abrasive material) of the intake valves to remove the offending deposits. The prospect of doing this several times before the vehicle warranty expired was not appealing to either dealers or customers.

 

 

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BMW engine intake valve at center was used in evaluation of a fuel that successfully completed a 10,000-mile test to meet BMW requirements for unlimited mileage use. Also shown for comparison are a new valve (left), and a valve showing classic cauliflower carbonaceous deposit buildup, removed from a car that had been driven for about 35,000 miles with unknown fuels before being purchased for fleet test service.

 

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BMW did a significant amount of work on their own investigating the causes of valve deposit. One important part of their research effort included a contract with the Institute to conduct vehicular fleet and laboratory bench tests.

 

The initial vehicle program, begun in 1986, was an interdivisional effort. This project involved six 1985 BMW model 318i vehicles and used nine test fuels. A carefully designed test route was established, using trained drivers on a schedule consisting of 10 percent city, 20 percent suburban, and 70 percent highway driving. On the completion of 150,000 miles of road-test work, a protocol was established for a test route (cycle), vehicle, fuel-ranking methods, and drivability, supported by objective correlations in which intake valve deposit weights were compared with engine performance.

 

A second program, testing seven cars, followed in 1987. This program provided additional data for the establishment of a fuel evaluation procedure, added to the database of commercial fuel performance, and allowed refiners to investigate new additive technology. An additional 130,000 miles were accumulated by the BMWs during this program.

 

BMW presented results of the 1986 project at the 1987 Society of Automotive Engineers International Fuels and Lubricants Meeting in Toronto, Canada.* The presentation, coupled with the 1987 follow-on program, served to increase the interest of some refiners and additive companies. Others, however, considered it a "non-problem" or one isolated to a small importer of foreign cars. For the most part, BMW continued its early efforts to increase interest in raising fuel quality in the U.S. without much direct support from other automobile companies.

 

Gradually, however, other vehicle manufacturers acknowledged that they, too, had problems or acknowledged the importance of the problem BMW had brought out of the closet. Furthermore, BMW developed a mechanism by which a fuel marketer at the service-station level could notify BMW owners that a particular gasoline could be depended on to provide good performance in their cars. Established performance criteria, SwRI experience and capabilities in fuels evaluation, and availability of the fleet of appropriate vehicles combined to make the Institute a logical choice to offer to refiners and marketers seeking a test by which they could evaluate their gasolines. Successful qualification using Institute procedures would allow manufacturers to market a fuel as having met BMW requirements.

 

Starting with the original six 1985 model 318i vehicles, the SwRI/BMW North America (NA) fuels evaluation program was initiated in January 1988. There has been a continual increase since then in the number of fuels tested and cars used as more marketers have realized that fuel quality is an important issue. As part of the overall developmental process, there have been frequent additive/fuel response and product development studies conducted in these vehicles.

 

The magnitude of the program and its rapid and continuing growth were not anticipated. There are currently 30 vehicles assigned to the program. Six of the original seven vehicles are still in service, each approaching 300,000 miles (the only dropout being one that was irreparably damaged in an accident). These vehicles may have had an engine and transmission change or two and other running gear repairs, but they have proven to be durable. The 5,000,000 total test miles in the project have required 125,000 driver hours (60 person-years). The test procedure has received widespread attention as fuel marketers have used it as a subject in television commercials and national media campaigns. Sponsors include companies not only in North America, but in Asia and Europe as well. Many national magazines have featured SwRI and the test procedure; most recently it was covered in Consumer Reports in January 1990.

 

The 10,000-mile Test

The fuel evaluation procedure, as currently structured, is based on 10,000 miles of driving in the BMW model 318i. These vehicles are equipped with 1.8L 4-cylinder engines and automatic transmissions. The testing is initiated with new, carefully weighed intake valves. This is followed by 10,000 miles of operation with the candidate fuel, and then disassembly of the cylinder head to reweigh the intake valves. An optional inspection at 5,000 miles is frequently conducted.

 

 

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Carefully weighed intake valves are shown being placed in an engine in preparation for a test. After 10,000 miles of operation with a candidate fuel, the test engine cylinder head is disassembled and the intake valves reweighed. Individual valve carbonaceous deposit accumulations of up to 2 grams have been recorded.

 

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The primary data consists of intake valve deposit ratings and weights and photographs of the intake valves. The significant data, however, is the actual deposit weight on the intake valves at 10,000 miles. Fuels are then classified in one of the three categories based on the following criteria established for the average of the four intake valves:

 

1) 100 milligrams maximum: meets BMW-NA standards of intake valve cleanliness for unlimited mileage.

 

2) 250 milligrams maximum: meets BMW-NA standards of intake valve cleanliness up to 50,000 miles.

 

3) More than 250 milligrams: does not meet BMW-NA standards of intake valve cleanliness.

[Satori]

Hai mai Ovi, adica ECM-ul ala s-a suparat in primii 30 de Km si s-a razbunat 3 luni mai tarziu, dupa inca 3000? Asa o fi sau alta era poanta?!

 

Le-au trebuit 3000km valorilor gresite din ECM sa faca destula zarva sa se aprinda martorul.

[ovi_jer]

Fuel Quality

 

Fuel quality is not a new issue for the automotive industry, but its potential for turning on the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) with EOBD systems is new.

Fuel additives such as "dry gas" and "octane enhancers" may affect the performance of the fuel. If this results in an incomplete combustion or a partial burn, it will set DTC P0300. The Reed Vapor Pressure of the fuel can also create problems in the fuel system, especially during the spring and fall months when severe ambient temperature swings occur. A high Reed Vapor Pressure could show up as a Fuel Trim DTC due to excessive canister loading. High vapor pressures generated in the fuel tank can also affect the Evaporative Emission diagnostic as well.

Using fuel with the wrong octane rating for your vehicle may cause driveability problems. Many of the major fuel companies advertise that using "premium" gasoline will improve the performance of your vehicle. Most premium fuels use alcohol to increase the octane rating of the fuel. Although alcohol-enhanced fuels may raise the octane rating, the fuel's ability to turn into vapor in cold temperatures deteriorates. This may affect the starting ability and cold driveability of the engine.

Low fuel levels can lead to fuel starvation, lean engine operation, and eventually engine misfire.

 

Severe Vibration

 

The Misfire diagnostic measures small changes in the rotational speed of the crankshaft. Severe driveline vibrations in the vehicle, such as caused by an excessive amount of mud on the wheels, can have the same effect on crankshaft speed as misfire and, therefore, may set DTC P0300.

[tolin]

... cititi si aici...

Hai, domn'le, ne pui sa citim despre "becul de la catalizator", sa citim barfa unor babe pe bancuta de la poarta ? Aici este vorba despre un diagnostic de pe un scaner, tiparit de catre o persoana foarte constienta despre ce inseamna P0300 si care sunt cauzele unui misfire generalizat. In plus, omul sustine, si noi nu avem nici un motiv sa nu-l credem, ca nu benzina si nici loganeala ar fi cauza defectului detectat la el (ea).

 

PS

Daca ati observat, valul de misfire apare o data cu sezonul rece, cand motorul, pentru a functiona, are nevoie de un amestec mai bogat in benzina. Dar, cum se impaca asta cu norma de poluare ? Un amestec mai bogat inseamna poluare sigura ! Cum rezolva programul implementat in ECM contradictia asta ? Daca deschide mai tare EGR si/sau miscsoreaza avansul (ambele pentru a scadea temperatura in camera de ardere si implicit, sa scada poluarea), contradictia se accentueaza si efectul unui misfire escaladeaza in avalansa ! Revin, in acest regim, un astfel de motor nu poate fi pornit de 2 x pe zi, dus maxim 3 km la 20 km/h si apoi, in weekend, cand zici ca-i faci un tratament de curatare, il misti 2h din Centru si pana la Otopeni, ca la intoarcere sa-i repeti tratamentul !

[Abram Burel]

Sato, tu povestesti telenovele cu supape sau spui povesti cu bau-bau?

Cum adica sa faca zarva? Adica ECM-ul e un fel de sac plin cu biti, care daca sunt zdruncinati incep sa zornaie? Sau poate sa intre in greva?

Chestia asta cu "invatatul" (prost, in primii kilometri dupa reset) are si ea limite (cat din ce stia se "suprascrie" si... dezvat (dupa sute de alti kilometri).

[Satori]

Povesti cu baubau ar inseamna sa ii povestesc masinii mele cum ar fi condusa daca ar fi a ta. Si nu am motive sa o sperii. Inca.

[dadu1976]

tolin:

- de ce recomanzi adaugarea de aditiv pentru marirea cifrei octanice si descurajezi alimentarea pe timp de iarna cu benzina cu un co mai mare?

- de ce recomanzi trecerea ecm pe harta avans pentru benzina de 91 cand chiar tu ai spus mai demult in alte posturi ca alimentarea cu benzina cu cifra octanica mai mare decat cea specificata de producator poate duce la formarea de depozite pe supape?

 

Pentru perioada de iarna eu recomand "Ventil Sauber" de la Liqui Moly care mai diminueaza acumularea de depozite de carbon pe perioada incalzirii motorului si a mersului urban.

Link-ul pe care l-am pus catre daciaforum a fost sa arat ca nu numai chevrolet are probleme si si alte marci, si nu sa evidentiez discutiile de acolo.(pot sa va arat link-uri si catre hyundai sau vwforum).

 

PS: Cred ca cei cu masini sub 20.000 km ar fi bine sa foloseasca mai des aditivi de curatare supape pentru a permite "rodarea" normala si curata a supapelor pe scaune. De asemenea cred ca folosirea unei benzine cu cifra octanica ridicata este indicata deoarece in cazul unor acumulari de carbon in camera de ardere sa se micsoreze riscul de a se aprinde prematur combustibilul.(co mai mare= rezistenta mai mare la aprindere)

 

Nu dati cu pietre, sunt opinii pur personale pe care eu le aplic la masina mea.

Edited January 12, 2007 by dadu1976

[entaro79]

Din cate vad eu pe forum , se "recomanda" foarte des acel reset la ECM.Nu cred ca asta e solutia,tremura un pic moturul..repede reset,consuma mult..ghici...reset.Masinile moderne cu unitate centrala (ECM,ECU...etc) nu au fost proiectate sa se reseteze pentru orice chestie.

 

Eu am avut o singura problema cu kalos-ul,consuma exagerat in primii X kkm,si atunci service-ul a resetat ECM-ul(sau poate l-au resoftat...nu am aflat niciodata) si s-a potolit(masina mea a fost ce-a din showroom,apana sa o cumpar a mers 90% in marsalier si niciodata mai sus de treapta 2) .Am mai dat si eu reseturi,pe moment am fost incantat,pe urma am realizat ca de fapt e efect pur placebo.Nu cred ca puteti justifica resetul cu date reale si efecte vizibile

 

Treaba cu engine check...resetam,punem benzina buna(depunerile de calamina sunt efectul sulfului nears complet),deci cautati benzine cu continut mic de sulf...si oricum nu e singurul factor care genereaza aprinderea nenorocitului ala de bec.Aceste motoare au fost concepute gresit din start(cel putin pentru RO),,problema lor sunt locasurile supapelor si forma supapelor care permit depunerile.O sa mergi in service ,iti curata cu spray magic...si ghici...probabil o sa revii la ei cand se umple iar de calamina.Solutia radicala este inlocuirea supapelor cu un set care se pot autocurata si au o cu toatul alta forma(asa cum trebuiau de fapt facute din fabrica).

 

Sa dau si eu un sfat ca e la moda,daca aveti probleme cu engine check si problema e cu depunerile de calamina,insistati in service sa schimbe supapele(masina e in garantie...nu?),solutia cu spray,cu reset..sunt provizorii,nu inlatura cauza si probabil in viitor o sa aveti iar aceiasi problema,

[Satori]

Nu au posibilitatea sa faca resoftare a ECMului. Nu au cu ce. Zici ca s-a potolit masina dupa ce ai fost in service? Foarte bine. Dar puteai sa ii dai si tu reset.

[entaro79]

Pe atunci nici nu stiam de existenta acestui forum

Iar resoftare se face,exeplu la DiBas era un omulet caruia iau resoftat ECM-ul(acum nu stiu dca iau facut flash sau i-au schimbat chipul in sine)...pe factura lui scria resoftare ECM si nu resetare,am vazut cu ochii mei asta

 

 

era un aveo 1.4 16V din noiebrie 2006

Edited January 12, 2007 by entaro79

[tolin]

tolin:

- de ce recomanzi adaugarea de aditiv pentru marirea cifrei octanice si descurajezi alimentarea pe timp de iarna cu benzina cu un co mai mare?

- de ce recomanzi trecerea ecm pe harta avans pentru benzina de 91 cand chiar tu ai spus mai demult in alte posturi ca alimentarea cu benzina cu cifra octanica mai mare decat cea specificata de producator poate duce la formarea de depozite pe supape?

1- am recomandat citirea specificatiilor produsului, daca o faceai, ai fi vazut ca este doar un alt cleaner, care n-are nicio legatura cu denumirea comerciala (oricum, octane Performance Booster nu se traduce prin "marirea cifrei octanice", octane este denumirea chimica a benzinei);

2- n-am scris undeva asa ceva, respectiv, ca benzina cu cifra octanica mai mare poate duce la formarea de depozite pe supape;

3- efectul benefic al restrangerii ariei de excursie a avansului la aprindere pe timpul sezonului rece la motoarele Daewoo este o observatie a mai multor membrii de pe forum;

4- benzina cu CO mai mare se foloseste la motoare cu raport de compresie mai mare decat al acestor motoare concepute sa functioneze cu benzina de CO mai mare sau egal cu 91. Pana acum 3 ani, doar benzinele de CO >= 98 aveau continut redus de sulf. Intre timp, tot mai multe marci de benzine de CO95 au continut redus de sulf, iar din anul 2007 nu este voie de comercializat benzine sub euro4;

5- este un nonsens a utiliza in rulajul urban o benzina mai scumpa, care-ti permite unghiuri mari de avans, in situatii in care traficul obliga motorul sa ruleze la turatii mici sau in care, la ralanti, avansul la aprindere are chiar valori negative.

[Satori]

...pe factura lui scria resoftare ECM si nu resetare,am vazut cu ochii mei asta

 

Pe factura mea scrie 5W30 cand au pus 10W40. Si GM in loc de .. nici nu mai stiu ce era.

Pe carnetul de garantii al lui povasus scrie 05.12.2007 la 5 operatii de inlocuire piese.

DiBas. Mai vrei?

[silviu75]

Am achizitionat de vreo 4 luni un aveo de 1.2 5 usi. Acum am vreo 2500 km si de o

saptamana tremura motorul si se aprinde intermitent un bec galben pe bord. Avand in vedere ca

in carte scrie sa ma prezint la service m-am executat si drept urmare mi-au stins becul care sa aprins din nou inca din curtea servicelui cand am plecat. Mecanicul mi-a spus ca este o problema des intanlita si ca as face bine sa ma obisnuesc cu asta. Imi venea sa il strang de gat si sa ii cer banii pe masina. Cand am ridicat masina de la dealer mi-a zis sa bag numai benzina de 98 si euam mai bagat si efix din cand in cand.

Ceea ce ma deranjeaza este faptul ca :

 

nu s-a rezolvat problema

 

mi-a spus sa ma obisnuiesc

 

Mai are cineva problema asta???

 

Imi cer scuze nu vazusem topicul asta.

Aoleu!!!!!! Ce masina am cumparat!?????

Daca stiam discutiile de aici nici nu mai intorceam capul dupa aceasta masina.

Edited January 18, 2007 by silviu75

[ovi_jer]

Pai daca ai citit subiectul aceasta cred ca ti-ai dat seama ce ai de facut si anume : sa incerci un reset la ecm si sa-ti schimbi stilul de mers.

[MCojo]

Sau sa-ti cumperi Golan...

[hawkeye]

Dealerii care sustin ca trebuie sa bagi numai benzina de 98 ar trebui omorati in chinuri groaznice si loviti cu user manual in care scrie minim CO91.

 

Cat despre userul nostru de mai sus, vinde-o si ia-ti noul model de Dacia. Am auzit ca are mare succes si este cea mai buna si nu are nici o problema, merge totul uns. Si n-o sa rada toata lumea de tine ca ti-ai luat chevrolet cand puteai sa-ti iei o masina germana (preferabil diesel) sau daca ai mai multi bani, Dacie.

[silviu75]

1. La Kalos scrie co 91 la Aveo scrie co 95 min. >-

 

2. La "recomandarea" dealearului am turat-o de i-au sarit capacele(schimb numai in cuplu la 4000, eu ii fac rodajul)

 

PS Daca vroiam sa iau dacie luam dacie. Aveo este pentru sotie, eu am un BMW 316 din 2002.

 

Chestiunea devenita atat de obsesiva pe forum cu reset-ul mi se pare o aireala totala. Nu o vad pe nevasta-mea coborand din birou si spunand colegelor "ma duc sa dau un reset" si ma intorc. Ce naiba mi-am luat calculator sau masina.

Edited January 18, 2007 by silviu75